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Bluestarultor
01-28-2012, 06:59 PM
I'll be requesting the old thread be deleted or... something, but I can't expect people to sift through that mess.

One of you might remember the thread in Off Topic where I mentioned the show I was cooking up (and was hoping to make into a 3D CG production). Well, things have solidified a bit, I have a few VAs from my friends and family, and reality has struck a bit more on how this could get made (barring me finding a 3D artist). The show setup hasn't changed from my initial sketch, but for the sake of not making anyone dig, I'll just bullet it.

3-Stage setup:

Center stage:
- 5 main characters (left to right):
-- Henry (drummer)
-- Daniel (/Garret, but only briefly in the game project that spawned the idea) (bassist)
-- "L" (keyboardist)
-- Gordon (lead guitar)
-- Corey (female singer)
- 2 prop characters:
-- Barry (above Daniel, animal-style bat which comes from hole in ceiling)
-- Diamond (jumps onto speaker nearest Corey, her "normal" musically-inclined pet cat)
- real speakers as needed/will fit (2 sitting on stage, one for each guitar)

Left Wing Stage:
- 4 partitions:
-- Bil and Gil (comedy twins)
-- D.J. (mascot, disc jockey, rapper, scratcher, and guy in charge of lights and sound)
-- empty Scratch Machine stage for "Live" shows and skits
-- Faith (female singer)

Right Wing Stage:
- 4 partitions:
-- Faith (duplicate, as she was originally intended to be quite important (she's in limbo now with no VA and hasn't developed much further))
-- Faith, Bil, and Gil (for big production numbers like birthdays, mechs are more stripped down than solo counterparts)
-- guest 1
-- guest 2 / empty

The setup takes major points from the RAE in terms of arrangement and design, due in part to the fact that originally DJ was intended to be another Uncle Klunk-style guest in terms of the game I was making before I decided I was better than that and built my own show around him. The characters are rather steeped in the mythology of the game that spawned them, but I'll do my best to avoid using in-game lore in describing them. All characters have some way of vacating the stage. In the case of the rotating stages, one stage is left more or less empty, and in cases where two guests are present on the right wing, I have enough sitting guest characters planned so at least one at any given time can be "asleep." All characters also have at least one speaker built in (in general on the upper chest) to create the illusion of voice and on instruments (mostly guitars) as needed.


As for the characters:

David Jacob "D.J." Del Gato - 19, bouncy guy, orange cat with shades, kind of a hornball, is not as good with "the ladies" as he thinks he is. This one is voiced by me (he's basically my normal voice) and has a "cat and mouse" relationship with Corey, while his rivalry with her cat is played for laughs. He's the main mascot of the band and has unparalleled utility due to the fact that he has his "Scratch Machine," which is similar to a DJ station you'd expect at an expensive party, with lights built in, turntables, sound controls, etc. He's perfectly capable of doing full solo shows just playing music and doing the lights, has his own birthday songs based on age and gender, and also claims to be responsible for the lights and such on all the shows, either doing them manually be he either onstage or backstage, or by setting up the pre-programming himself.

Corey Rockwell - 17, tomboyish, brown mouse with a brunette bob and blue-dyed bangs, likes to tease D.J. without giving him anything. I was hoping to use software to voice this one myself, but that's not working out well and she needs a VA (I only know one girl IRL I'd trust to flirt back and forth with without it getting weird and she was non-committal just on the band aspect, so I never explained the character). Corey was originally intended to be more like Mitzi (under the name Suzie Singer), but there was a split when I started looking at other people to voice her and Corey evolved where Suzie didn't. Corey is a much more modern take on a teenaged girl and toes the line a bit into rave/goth territory visually without losing her upbeat personality. If you know anyone who'd be willing to take the role as-is with the understanding of what it entails, by all means point her to it. I'm just not holding my breath on getting anyone for it until I get another girlfriend. >.<

Diamond - Corey's cat, a gray tabby with a white diamond on his forehead. This one has a VA planned, once Tank cooperates and gives me some decent singing meows. Yes, I'm serious. He's a damn smart cat and even speaks English ("milk," "momma," "Philip" (my brother), etc.), but coaxing him into meowing into a mic still needs work. After that, it's software. Diamond simply doesn't like D.J. and often hisses at him in skits, which is played for laughs in that D.J. often hisses back and treats him like a human rival despite Diamond being a normal cat (who just happens to understand English and sing by meowing).

Barry - a "funny animal" bat which lives in the attic of the building. Unlike Diamond, he can actually talk (and is voiced by me). Barry likes music he can sing prominently in and thus favors stuff in the falsetto range like disco (which is a running joke in that nobody else likes it nearly as much as he does). (For reference, that's not ripping off Rolfe inasmuch as I actually like disco and have a good selection to work with.)

Henry Acres - 21, wild and crazy, hulder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulder) with a prehensile tail (possibly to be changed to gray wolf tail) which is almost always in motion and cropped black hair, plays the drums WITH GUSTO! Not much more to say about this guy. He's got a full drum kit and is easily the worst technical nightmare in that he's pretty much Aaron's dream for Dook, able to play his drums like a real person, as well as having various other percussion things like disc bells, chimes, etc. for added utility. His tail is more easily handled than you'd think. Plans call for a swivel-base lever on the ceiling connected to the end by fishing line and a flexible skeleton inside to allow it a wide range of motion without sacrificing solidity. If I go gray wolf, then even that could be reduced to just wag based out of his backside. I can voice him if need be (I have voices set aside), but my brother offered to do it along with Gordon in absence of finding anyone else. Or, if anyone is interested, Phil is doing it more as a favor than out of any burning desire.

Gordon Ru Den - 24, down to earth, leopard guy, rather quiet, but people tend to listen when he talks. He's the lead guitarist and is a lead singer of the band, but doesn't talk much. When he does, it's generally something quite wise or intelligent and people tend to listen. The name is part of the lore of Jerako, the game world these are based on. I'll just leave it at the fact that the animal-people in it are genetically human and gain their appearance by magic, and those that come from lines that have been that way for long enough tend to reflect the naming conventions popular at the time. Gordon was originally intended to be black (inasmuch as I was hoping to find someone to help round out the band's sound, not in that I needed a token ethnic character), but given my area is pretty much white and Asian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wausau,_Wisconsin#Demographics), my brother offered to take him, too. On the other hand, I don't think Phil would mind letting him go if someone else were interested (note: this is an equal opportunity role; I'm not being picky about it anymore).

Elijah "L" Brown - 25, a main presence, is a hybrid beast-man with a human face and pointed ears, brown skin, and a whippy short tail, acknowledges he's a half-breed and doesn't care, quite laid-back, but has good leadership skills, too. L is based on another character in Jerako and to keep things short, the magic didn't quite take on him. L really doesn't care, though. Being the oldest of the main crew, he often puts his hands behind his head, kicks back, and watches the others' antics for his own amusement before reining them in for a song. He's a big guy, much like Fatz and Munch, and has the same position and instrument, but has a very different personality compared to either, being much less vivacious and much more of a gentle giant. He's also voiced by me and was one of the first voices I worked on getting right.

Daniel Pickett - 18, a bit of a prankster, race similar to a D&D Gnome, is the newest member of the band. This one is a bit more complex because his creation is specifically tied into the game that spawned this. The "production" explanation is that he's simply the band's newest member, but the game's explanation is that the person who created all these made one of himself, decided against it, and simply bleached the wig for a quick and easy change to protect his own popularity. Daniel will be voiced by either myself or my friend Matt, based on how much Matt as a guy with no musical experience can handle. If Matt can handle part work, he'll be pulling double duty as Bil and Gil, but if not, and if he still wants to sing, he'll be getting Daniel. As such, Daniel's character is a bit in flux right now.

Bil and Gil Rupee - 22, resident terrible comedy act, elves, identical twins in pretty much every sense of the word. I created these two with Matt in mind so he could bounce terrible puns back and forth to himself, but eventually I realized there was a good deal of potential in having them sing. The thing is I've never heard Matt sing before (EVER) and I don't know if he'd be comfortable recording different parts, so I formulated a voice that could probably pass in case he wants to keep them, or if he'd rather just take Daniel, well, yeah. In flux right now.

Faith Fields - 21, represents a much more feminine influence, human with long, raven hair, was originally intended to be the main female vocalist. Faith poses a problem because despite her being intended to be THE main female vocalist, I have no one to voice her and no way to hack it in Audacity based on my own voice (the same issue I had with Corey). By all means, if you know a woman who can sing (preferably the type who can sing ballads), point her in my direction. Unlike the Corey role, this one is totally safe. I just don't know anyone who's good for it.

and finally, one of my guest mechs, listed only because I have a voice for him that's not me and he was always intended to be quite important and recurring

Glenn Ru Gre - 19, a friend of D.J.'s, puma guy, more laid back than his showboating friend and can snipe with the best of them. Glenn is going to be voiced by Max, who's more my brother's friend, but is halfway mine at this point, too. He was originally intended to be the "cool" type when I thought I'd be taking him (he was originally visioned as casually arrogant and his stage is designed as an outdoor scene with him leaning against a tree literally right next to a "keep off the grass" sign), but with Max interested in taking a character, I thought his voice would be a best fit and I'll be playing it more by ear depending on where Max wants to go with him.


That's the novel so far on band and dream making-the-show-real junk. On a technical level, I'm not banking on getting a 3-D artist at this point, since I already tried hitting up a friend for models and she said she wasn't prepared for this kind of thing, nor do I have the money (being a young adult with bills to pay) to hire a decent artist for this type of commission. Nor can I really do it myself because I don't have the time to start from scratch nor the money for the stupidly expensive male and female bases I've found so far for Blender (seriously, WTF?). What I do have and know how to work in is Flash, and while it's not likely to be shaded as well as I'd like, I'm anal enough that I can maintain depth and positioning with near-3D accuracy given the time and effort. I'm still calling that my backup option, though. For music, I have and am comfortable with Anvil Studio, which does MIDI, but should suffice for now, and can even be used to write the sheet music for the vocal parts.

I'm posting all this in hopes that maybe someone here would be interested in helping. I'm hoping mostly for getting interested voices, but if anyone can offer anything in the art department, that would be fantastic!

loki
01-29-2012, 01:27 AM
Blue, What a great read :) don't give up on the 3D just yet! instead go take a look at: http://www.daz3d.com and wander around there a bit.....

Daz Studio (their flagship program) is FREE, but you'll have to buy plugins to play with (unless you make your own)

Next take a look at their "toon" catagory (under the marketplace area) you'll find many great animals that can be the building blocks to what you have written out above.

From there once you have the models you can load them into Daz Studio (or Poser) and you can pose, animate, etc

MOST of the plugins have various license 'restrictions' some will NOT allow you to use their stuff for "commercial purposes" but others allow it, HOWEVER there are LEGAL ways around the ones who 'don't allow it' the first is to contact the artist and let them know WHAT you'll be doing with their product, HOW you plan on changing their product to make it more "your own" and 90% of them will have NO PROBLEM with you using it for commercial stuff.

(3D is actually my main job ;) but I do NOT do modeling, I just never had the patience lol, instead I do tweaks and re-texturing to existing models when I need to (I've actually been toying with recreating the RAE and sending some shots over to Aaron to see if I can get his 'blessings' to do some 'comics' / light animations with them once done (Granted with my work loads who knows if I'll EVER see this project come to light lol.

Blender and other software CAN deff be a 'scary' thing to jump into, trust me lol, I've played with prolly EVERY model making software out there and MOST of them make me feel like a scared 3 year old, BUT I'm getting better with time and age lol (I've been doing this now going on 15 years :) )

If you'd like any help of whatnot feel free to hit me up and I'll answer any questions you have that I can, I can prolly also point you to a few 3D communities where you can further 'cut your teeth', get help and maybe even find some artists looking to beef up their portfolios over their bankrolls.

Good Luck!!

-Loki-

Bluestarultor
02-19-2012, 08:14 PM
I finally got everything in order to download DAZ. It's still downloading, but we'll see if it's any friendlier than Blender. If not, well, it was still free. ;)

The main issue I had with Blender previously was really that up until recently I didn't have a mouse and it flat-out requires 3 buttons. I just always used my touchpad and managed some pretty decent things with it if I do say so myself. In 2D, anyway. Sadly, that laptop died, so I was forced to start doing art on my new one and I have to say they don't make touchpad buttons like they used to, so I broke down and got a nice USB unit.

I'll have an update in roughly an hour on whether or not I can figure this out and if I'm just going to toss it for making me pay stupid amounts of money for it. They seem quite happy to charge you for models, skins, and specific morphs, and my faith in them having included really any bases to work with is quickly waning with disclaimers like "requires X model" and "models, bases, maps, lighting, pixels and black magic sold separately. Total Cost: your immortal soul." You get the idea. I'm going with whatever is most cost effective and if this basically comes as three bits of software with nothing in them, well, so does Blender, and Blender has certain things out there for free.

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Looks like something goofed up with the downloads. Guess I'm not playing with it tonight. :(

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I take it back. There's a training wheels mode that will be immensely helpful automating body creation. The most I'll need to do is futz with sliders and customize the faces with all that entails. I just need to figure out the mouse controls, since I'm more used to what I did to play with Blender. Plus the animation mode, even if I will end up paying for it, seems similar to stuff I've done in Flash and other things. Thanks for pointing me to this!

Bluestarultor
02-25-2012, 07:57 PM
So I've been sketching the store layout and a thought occurred. I wanted a cabaret-type show in a quiet adult area, but so far placing said quiet area has been... elusive. The main issue is that I wanted another rotating stage in there for things like retired guests and certain things that would appeal to a more adult audience. So far this is the setup:
http://i39.tinypic.com/zv55l1.gif

However, given those shows also may include someone like Faith, whose ballads might be appropriate for an adult audience (and would otherwise give her a whopping 4 mechs, more than even the MC of the Country Bear Jubilee), plus the idea that some of the other adult shows might also do more fun things, I've been thinking of how things might possibly work out to share the stages. This is what I have so far:
http://i44.tinypic.com/mlgto6.gif

The benefit of the above is I've been struggling with how to make the adults room private enough to really allow them to escape. Me? I honestly don't do well at things like dances because it's noisy, crowded, and overwhelming. This room is supposed to be a spot where parents can be irresponsible for a change and let their kids run wild without them having to deal with it in a place where such things are totally appropriate. The issue I've had with putting the room away from the dining area is that I can't think of a good way to get food from the kitchen (across from the cabaret) around all the little screaming beasts and onto adults' tables.

My other solution so far is this:
http://i42.tinypic.com/140vsza.gif

My main concern for this one is, again, the noise level, since there's little stopping overflow noise from main seating through the show's space and the game area through the bottom wall. The partitions will help, obviously (note that none of this stuff is to scale and I haven't decided the partition thickness or anything else, since I am not, in fact, an engineer, nor have I fully decided what the inner area of the stage will be, since I could technically use the walls for colored floods or something if things aren't flush). Also helping is that I don't plan on having the shows running at the same time, so there would be no character conflicts, nor am I really concerned with the show being dead center in the cabaret, since people may not even want to deal with that. A second strike against this one, though, is that this is taking up space currently assigned to the game room, so short of extending the man dining room way out, this means a total redesign (or at least reevaluation of my utter lack of attention to scale) for that side of the store.

Basically, my biggest issue with designing all this is that I can see the stages like real stages, since I'm familiar with those, but when it comes to seeing the whole room, well, it's been so long since I've seen a CEC or RAE in person that I have no concept anymore of how big the actual stages and mechs are. It's been over a decade since I last saw a show in person.

Regardless of how things work out, sharing the cabaret shows would be of benefit from a mech perspective (3 duplicate characters and a fourth stripped down version is just silly), would allow even greater flexibility than I have already, and would focus more attention on D.J. just by virtue of decentralizing the main stage ("L" is not Fatz by a long shot and his personality really is not geared to being the center of attention).

Basically, there's a lot of benefit to this setup, not the least of which is that it's never been done like this. I just need feedback from you guys with your better knowledge on store setups to help determine where the actual room should go.

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So I actually made the modifications in my sketchbook and fixed some of my scaling issues based on what size I think an RAE stage is compared to what I'd set out for the main dining area and kitchen. Option 3 looks better on paper (yo!), than I expected. :P

This also means I'll be wanting to move Faith from DJ's stage and onto the cabaret stage, which opens a slot for which I don't happen to have anything yet. The bonus is I'll be able to fill it with anything I want, since I was thinking about it and with all the rotating stages, plus ways for main stage mechs to vacate, there are a grand total of 9 places a kid could stand to potentially end up in a maintenance area, 8 very easy to access points where one could lose a limb when the stages rotate, an additional 4 at the back of the main stage along with 3 squares on the ground, and at least one lawsuit sometime eventually if measures were not taken to keep kids safely away from the stages. To this effect, I put up a fence, so no one would be able to look under the curtains anyway.

Bluestarultor
03-03-2012, 11:56 AM
This is the current setup of the store.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2h3dkp5.png

If that's too hard to read, the cliffs notes are that there's a lot of air storage involved. Each wing stage has its own storage tank to increase the freedom of each segment. There are already plans for certain guest shows to rotate independently of the stage like the NRAE, and those in turn may end up with a sub-tank to allow increased freedom with what ultimately is 3 epicycles of rotation (wing stage, segment floor, character floor), or some other junction, and depending on just how far things need to rotate, junctions under each character.

And yes, I realize that the game room and gift shop are massive. Those haven't been redrawn to scale since I keyed everything to the showroom and the seating I'd expect, so the place is a bit of a warehouse according to this. XD

As for any oddities with the setup, the black parts are the various TVs, speakers, drums, etc. Diamond jumps onto a speaker, while Barry flies in from a hole in the ceiling and hangs upside-down from the valence. The backup faeries drop from behind the valence as well and float just below it. And yes, those lines in front of the stages are fences.

RetroGirl
03-03-2012, 06:14 PM
Wow! Impressive.

PaulKTF
03-03-2012, 06:28 PM
Wow! Very impressive. You've put a lot of thought and effort into that. Very cool! :)

Bluestarultor
03-05-2012, 09:26 PM
Just a small update. To help differentiate more from the RAE, I'm switching "L" to drums and Henry to keyboard, keeping their respective positions, although this greatly impacts L's lower body design. "L" is a big guy and really doesn't deserve to have that compromised by being forced into stubby legs to fit onstage. Sitting him down behind a drum set lets him be big and proportional. Plus his giant mitts and upper body in general were always intended to be highly articulated, which is wasted on a fake keyboard. Fully working hands will allow him to pick up and set down any percussion tool he needs much like Klunk on steroids, so "L" has basically switched from being a Fatz wannabe to having a visual style more like Russel from Gorillaz and a personality all his own. His lower body now will be more articulated than ever, with his butt bolted down to a sturdy swiveling seat and his legs having freedom of movement, so while his ankle animation handles the pedals, he'll be able to, with careful programming, walk himself around to hit things positioned behind him, and to vacate he'll of course need to pull his legs in to fit through the trap door.

Likewise, Henry now gets to be even more animated, with the ability to, like Gordon, stand up from his seat when he gets onto things and bounce around more like D.J. and make fists a lot like Corey. So even though he's more cobbled together from other members, it's really all benefit to his wilder character. His tail movement still translates with the wire approach and in fact his ability to bounce will help make his tail movements more fluid and natural.

Overall, the switch is of benefit to both characters and the uniqueness of the show in general.

andy91
03-10-2012, 04:55 AM
so are you actually starting a store? do you have business plans, and financial backing? I used to toy with voice acting and as a kid I could do almost all of the voices Joey from full house could do, if their was a way I could help I diffently would.

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i do visit wisconsin often, usually lodi or the dells, but if you do get this up and running Id love to see it