RAF Panel help / Curtain Control.... [Archive]

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yorkmiss

11-02-2008, 04:58 PM

I just got around to hooknig up the RAF panel I bought from Aaron over a year ago.
I have all the circuit info I need, but don't know how to hook up the curtain motor.
The lights are simple - as it obviously sends 110v to the lamps.
But the curtain control is different...
I see it has 4 seperate terminals...
one for power,
One for "x in the curtain control box"
one for open
one for close

My question is this:
What "output" is there to open and close the curtains?
For example, does it send 110v to the terminal...
Does it send 24v to the wire to close a solenoid in the curain control box...
Does it simply "close a contact" with the previously mentioned "x" teriminal?

I dont have original curtain motors, but do have "real" curtain contol motors from another animatronic show.
I just dont want to short anything out...

Thanks for any advice anyone can give!

Beth

Ok, I guess I will just talk to myself here :)
Here's what I found out -
the "x" terminal is a common wire that grounds to the other wires to either open or close the curtains.
So, I have the panel figured out....and I am quite sure I have it figured out because everything BUT the curtains work. So, my new question...
The RAF panel operates on the 24v signals from the gray box - but I am not getting any signals (voltage) on the curtain control relays.
The way the panel works (as far as I can tell) is it has 24v to the relays/triacs at all times, and then grounds them out to complete the circuit and thus close another relay that turns on the lights.
Each of the three RAF connectors has two RED 24v power wires, and 20 or so grounds.
The problem I have is that I don't have 24v all the time on the curtain control relays like I do the others...
So, I figured that it just may be the power wire was bad - so I jumped 24v from another cable to the curtain control relay hoping that the gray box would still ground that circuit...
but it doesn't. Nothing happens on those wires at all...
Damon said I may need a "curtain control" card for my grey box... can anyone tell me about these?
Another thing is that there IS a card in the gray box that says "SPP CURTAIN BYPASS - THIS SIDE UP" Does anyone know what that does? It looks like a home made circuit board of some type... and we tried taking it out but it doesnt change anything as far as we can tell...
Any suggestions? The entire reason we wanted this monster RAF panel was so we could watch the curtains open and close on their own... and now it's the only thing that DOESNT work!

circuspizzafan

11-06-2008, 01:09 AM

This is what my card looks like.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/arcadefan17/rae%20stuff/PC0774922.jpg

yorkmiss

11-06-2008, 07:37 AM

Well, that's nothing like any of the cards I have in my box.
I guess the next question is does anyone out there know someone that has one of these they want to sell?
This bites so bad. I should have checked my gray box our more when I got it.
Beth

Oh, and forgive me for being rude! I was so upset when I saw that picutre, I forgot my manners!
THANK YOU for replying and sending me that picture. You probably saved me hours of wasted time testing something that cannot work at all.

circuspizzafan

11-06-2008, 03:56 PM

No problem it would be great if we would get them reproduced.

yorkmiss

11-06-2008, 04:33 PM

Here's pictures of Damon's box and mine as well... let's see if I know how to attach stuff....

CEC3066

11-06-2008, 04:59 PM

has anyone noticed how ****ty the 3 stage CEC shows look w/o working curtains Yhank GOD for the RAE!

circuspizzafan

11-06-2008, 09:20 PM

Here's pictures of Damon's box and mine as well... let's see if I know how to attach stuff....

I have never seen your boards before but to me the look like they need to flip flopped. But I don’t think that will get the curtains working. The way I have it setup is the top drawer the one that has no buttons has the curtain board in it. If would like any photos just let me know.

yorkmiss

11-06-2008, 09:37 PM

I'll give that a try . . . although I think the "top" drawer card is zip tied in place, and I'm not sure - but I think there is a big cable going to it.
I'll update everypne tomorrow... and once again, thanks for the help!
Beth

yorkmiss

11-06-2008, 10:17 PM

I tried to swap cards as suggested... and I DID get results!
Now, I have signal "ground" on the open and close terminals ... but it's AT THE SAME TIME.
I am testing this with the TRIVIA NIGHT show.... where Mitzi is introducing the show and the keep opening and closing the curtains (it's the easiest one for me to hit PLAY and get a couple of test signals by the time I get out to the RAF)
Anyhow...
When they say "close the curtains" or "Close the curtains" Both the open and close "grounds" or "bits" fire at the same time.
This wouldnt be so bad if I had a one-button open/close curtain motor... but the motors I have are designed to have a seperate open and close signal.

Ill look at that home made card someone put in the box before I bought it tomorrow. Maybe that it where the signals are being spliced into one signal.

I guess the good news is that i COULD hook up the motors to at least open on their own now!
I'll sleep better tonight now... honestly. I can't tell you how important this is to me! THANKS!!!

Beth

circuspizzafan

11-06-2008, 10:34 PM

That’s cool you got something and that’s a great idea using that show tape wish I had thought of that when I was working on mine.

yorkmiss

11-06-2008, 10:52 PM

So, I couldn't wait AGAIN...
I looked the "Bypass card". It looks like it takes "signal" from side A and connects it to the same position on side B. THey are nothing more than jumpers. No other components other than wire.
There's six of these wires... I'm assuming two for each stage.... one open and one close... and none of them overlap... so there's no reason for me to believe the signal overlap is from that card.
I tried running the show with the card not installed at all... and the signals vanish all together.
I still wonder what that other little card was for? Everything seems to be working fine without it... At least for now. Maybe that's the next thing to pop up on my "can't figure it out" list. it says something like H/L CARD on it... so maybe it is for the house lights... which I will neve ruse anyway.
So, it looks like I am going to need this curtain controller card. I hope someone has one sitting around. I figure if so many Billy Bob bots lived from the Showbiz days... there's got to be at least a couple of these cards out there.
Tomorrow I'll try to hook up the one signal to open the curtains... or maybe tonight IF I can't sleep after this! LOL
Thanks for your help - it's been AWESOME!

Beth

circuspizzafan

11-07-2008, 12:10 AM

Also if you have the blue service manual it has schematic of the card.

yorkmiss

11-07-2008, 05:41 PM

Yeah!
I had a few problems...
1) Home made cable had pin 25 in pin 23 spot...
2) SPP Bypass card (Still dont know where it came from) had bad solider spot.
3) One "CEI-1" thing (the little circuit board with a plastic blob on it) was toast.
4) The digital show tape I was using had glitchy data (Aaron told me ahead of time to watch out for that crap.)

Add those all up - and it takes an entire day of vacation to fix... but I have a feeling of success tonight!

So... click to see!....

http://www.yorkmiss.com/Curtains.wmv

Thanks for all the help Circuis Dude! I couldn NOT have done it without you!!!!

circuspizzafan

11-07-2008, 06:04 PM

circuspizzafan

11-09-2008, 11:24 PM

Just founds this in some of my old documents

“The curtain controller board acts as a buffer board to prevent any noise spikes from causing unwanted curtain openings or closings. The board is electronically placed between the “LDB” and the actual curtain motor controller.”

yorkmiss

11-10-2008, 08:55 AM

That's a bit troubling... I hope that with the fact I am going to run digital shows, that the signal "noise" doesn't become a problem.
The good news is that the show I was running to test the curtains with was one of the shows I have with very poor signal quality and glitch problems... and it worked fine... so I hope that's not a problem.
Thnaks for the info though... If they start doing crazy things... I'll know why!

Beth