PROGRAMMING DIFFERENCE FROM THEN TO NOW

[TreyTX]

Hey everyone...I have mentioned this before and now that I have seen Snap's show in action (thanks for the add) you can tell the incredible difference between early Rock afire programming to later ShowBiz Pizza Time programming...check out Fatz, he almost looks like he's playing the piano and Mitzi is really going at it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbAQJZNNGe8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbAQJZNNGe8)


So why now with Munch's current band do the characters barely turn right and left (Helen)...why is it so boring now...do the new programmers just not have what it takes to puppeteer?

Now when you look at a current 1 or 2 stage CEC show (Cyber bots)...it is pathetic...helen just turns right and left...head only stays up the whole time...there is no 'dancing' to the music anymore... know what I am talking about folks-- find a friend who works at your local CEC and have them put in the emergency showtape...it is usually from the early 90's...and will work with the current computer chips installed and you will see what I am talking about. I think Jenn made a comment somewhere that they are programming the 3 stage and then dumping the signals onto the 1 and 2 stage tape to save time on programming so they would only have to program the Studio C and 3 stage...well I am sure this might have some cause why people are not as excited about there shows anymore...no more light dimming and dump songs like "I like to see you jump, jump, jump"...kids don't care what the show is playing they just like to see the characters and if adults appear to somewhat interested in what is going kids will be more interested...I remember at my locale ShowBiz...the lights would dim and the curtains would open and the music was much louder and got you excited and they played music adults liked...it was a real show not just some background announce in front of you singing plain 'jump' songs. Who can even, today, hear what they are saying when they are speaking?

DO YOU THINK THEIR THOUGHTS (CORP) IS TO PROGRAM THE SHOW WITH AS LITTLE MOVMENTS AS POSSIBLE TO HAVE LESS WEAR AND TEAR ON THE SHOW SO THE TECH DOES NOT HAVE TO SPEND TIME ON THE SHOW AND MORE TIME ON THE GAME REPAIRS?

[captslappy]

Well we've talked about this several times on other boards. The big issue, particular with 1 and 2 stage is it is programmed using a 3 and then the signals are converted. Also, the air pressure has been lowered so tehy do not move as fast. The style has changed over time too. There are many factors but we went and saw the 3 stage in Dallas when we did CV3 and I don't think Mike does a bad job on them. Keep in mind this is not the Rock-afire either. Another thing to think about is many shows are not in that great a shape and may have movements out so what you are seeing in your store may not be what you would see if you saw it on the corporate programming stage.

[puppetmaster29]

Thank you Capt.

[pizzacam]

Damn cutbacks....sigh yeah let's use a 2 stage format to program a show with 50,000 movements...geniuses man I tell ya! :rolleyes

[Billy Bob Brockali]

Well, here we go...

One thing that people overlook is that the big difference in current programming in the case of the Rock-Afire and the early Pizza Time Players, is the people who created the show, were programming it.

I don't deny that for periods in SPP/CEC history the programming may have sufferered because of time/budget, and other issues. But no matter how hard they try I just don't think the same care and knowledge of the show is ever possible, simply because the people programming were not involved in the creation of the animation.

CEI in it's heyday, as well as CEC in the PTT era had something going for each of them in that they knew the limitations of their characters. CEI used lighting and fast movement to make their show a spectacle. Pizza Time went for the vaudville style with the fluttering eyelids, lots of props, and side to side "dancing". This allowed the show to feel bigger than it really was.

Even though both of these styles are still possible, it is not what the current company's idea for the show is. The programmers are stuck into low air pressure for a show that was not designed for it, not to mention cosmetics that never fit right in the field (3-stage), a low movement show with no additional props that is only programmed "by proxy" (1/2 stage), as well as having brightly lit showrooms that no longer allow for the proper suspension of disbelief. And let's not get started on the fact that if half the momevments are working, it's now a "great" show, and the bored showroom employees who feel the need to turn the show volume down with a full house.

I have seen some of the CEC programming room videos, and while I am incapable of enjoying a CEC show the way I enjoy the RAE, I wouldn't really put the blame on the programmer. Given the right usage of the show in it's proper environment, I think they could produce an enjoyable show, even for adults.

But CEC corporate, for lack of a better term, sucks. No matter how much the guys in the Entertainment Deptartment may wish to be doing otherwise, they are currently creating shows that are designed for the 10 and under crowd. So comparing the current "concept" to the old days is like saying Toy Story isn't as realistic a movie as Pulp Fiction. They're not trying to reach the same audience, and at least in the near future, I don't see CECE clamoring to get us "geezers" back.

/rant off

[pizzacam]

Man, I feel so old now...but nonetheless AMEN! Fatz:"You know what they call a a Quarter Pounder with cheese in Paris?" Dook:"They Don't call it a Quarter Pounder with cheese?" :lol :lol :lol

[TreyTX]

thanks for the info...I have just been curious about the 1 and 2 Cyberamic bot show...I saw a 3 stage performance about a month ago in one of the Chicagoland suburbs and was impressed...and the tech must be on the ball because the show was moving quite well...just popped in as I have never seen a 3 stage's random movements without the curtains closing...I am sure the new CECEnt show programmer is glad he only has to program two show systems instead on 3...so again, thanks everyone for the heads up!

[RodHouTx]

Wow, that Rockafire looked good!!

yeah Trey, the 3-Stage DOES actually move quite well if it is maintained. Remember the skits that Matt posted of his programming at corp and some of the holiday shows that have been posted? They are good.

The old RockAfire programming looks awesome, but if the characters are going to move that fast they have to be kept very well-tuned or it will look jerky. Everything has to be kept very accurate to match the wonderful programming Kathy did. When ShowBiz slowed down the RockAfire, I think it still looked pretty good (see Cyberstar videos).

If you slow them down a little bit, I think there can be more deviation from the correct movement speed, and its probably a lot easier to program slower movements than something that moves so fast at the touch of a button. And of course, wear and tear.

Now that I have seen old programming for the 1- and 2-stage, I have a better appreciation for those too, and they have a lot less pressure than RAE and less accuracy, but they still look cool.

[RodHouTx]

That is such a good video. I have watched it several times now!

I think one more thing that is different is that the programming for the past few years they move their heads left and stay for a while, and then to the right, etc. But back in the old days of programming there was a lot more movement left and right and also not going to a full stop at left and right, kind of hovering in the middle, and also arms waving in mid air (Mitzi). MMBB can still do those things to some degree, but not to the same degree. Maybe we should have Michael trade in his joystick for two pushbuttons. LOL...

[Snap]

My video camera is broke right now. I have to use it to upload videos but when it is fixed I will add lots more. I thought those of you who have never seen my show should see it. Very enjoyable to watch. Told you guys I wasn't talking out of my Butt saying it's the best out there. LOL!